chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet

When I see a child with Down's syndrome, I have a tremendous need to explain myself and apologise a million times over. The termination would be averting a tragedy. But he was wrong. Sometimes specialist scans such as 3D scans, or MRI scans, are used to examine the baby in greater detail. I was told that while bad news at the 12 w scan is often of the life or death kind, bad news at the 20 week scan is often of the 'needs an operation in childhood' or 'needs to wear a brace for a year' kind. Wishing to be anywhere, but here being told the same agonising truth over and over again. It was another consultant, who said, "I'm afraid I have some bad news - your baby has Down's syndrome." Thankfully I was met by an amazing sonographer, she was compassionate and understanding. And I, and, I felt the weight of deciding what to do about it. However painful and traumatic the labour was, it was better than what would happen at the end of it. As I was called for my scan I was nervous and emotional. We bought little outfits, teddies, and researched all the vitamins and foods that I could eat. My belly was growing and I was feeling great. Most scans are carried out by specially trained staff called sonographers. Fine, go on my own. She asked me how far gone I thought we were, and if I could have been mistaken. And you know, we were laughing and joking. Bad news at 20 week scan, please help. | Mumsnet Parents get a chance to emotionally adapt to news and plan. I was young, I didn't need one. I think at that time she had come to terms better with the fact that this baby was going to be terminated, and I don't think I was quite there. After she had taken all the measurements, the sonographer told us that she was concerned with the length of the baby's limbs in relation to the head. And I know I can't hurry up the process of grieving. And I remember, the first thing I remember when something might be wrong, was I saw, I finally, we finally saw an image of the skull on the screen, and there appeared to be a sort of black hole shape in the middle. So she said, 'Come back on Monday. I pray it's just her heart but I can't see anything else is wrong as I have been scanned by a consultant since I was 14 weeks and every time he has said everything looks okay and she is growing consistently. Those two weeks were agonising for us both. He was sure the consultant on Monday would see that the measurements were completely normal and that there was nothing to worry about. We've joined the grown-ups and we both feel very different. We went in, had a scan, I can't remember the exact sequence of events because the baby was still in the wrong position. And, faced with feeling sorry for myself or feeling sorry for my child, I know which I'd choose. It was far too much power; neither of us wanted it. Have I misunderstood what's going on?' We spent the next few weeks in a happy bubble. Just doing it. And so this one can't tell you anything, it's pictures, you're going, you're going to see your baby, you're going to get pictures. And even at that early stage it was beginning to sink in that there was something really not right. Some stories I hear are amazing! Purpose of screening. So at least then we went to that next stage prepared for the worst really. We thought it would all be over very quickly but, in fact, it was another 11 hours before the baby was delivered. The consultant explained that this was just very bad luck and not, as far as they knew, genetic. As though I went power mad for a week, killing my innocent unborn child, and now I am tainted for ever. It feels very lonely and isolating. Please note that the opinions expressed by users in Tommys Book of #misCOURAGE are solely those of the user, who is unlikely to have had medical training. The doctor didn't come. 17/12/2020 17:13. It felt as if we had gone power crazy. I felt sad, but not the complete devastation of the last scan as they had seen a change of some sort. So he was about two weeks smaller than what he should have been. Specialist scans are performed in specialist fetal units and if clinicians feel that there might be problems scanning will be done up to 32 weeks. . Some hospitals do offer earlier anomaly scans of the baby, but they will not show as much detail as scans performed between 18 and 20weeks. The 18-20 week antenatal scan and further tests. So we had to go in and out a couple of times, and we were just waiting around for ages and ages. The results come in stages. Unfortunately I was not met with a compassionate sonographer. Cardiac surgery can do some amazing things. Can't seem to find info on the Internet. 20 week scans look for 11 different anomalies as a rule, however, indicators (markers) are not terribly reliable and in all the literature I found, the targets set for stonographers look like they only pick up around 50% or less of these variants. I had to wait for a doctor to explain the situation. By this time, we were tired. We had the 20 week scan yesterday and got some devastating news. Next most likely (but actually in the minority) they identify something which whilst not 100% healthy is treatable. The scan yet again confirmed things were not good, however the sac had grown. But you know I knew we had, we had to make a decision that was right for the baby as well. Intellectually, I knew this was not the case. In this information, the word we refers to the NHS service that provides screening. I sat and waited to be called for my scan. The same anxious wait for a little, pathetic cry. We were told to go to the hospital immediately. Spina bifida can usually be seen clearly on a scan and of those babies who have this condition, around 9 out of 10 (90%) will be detected. hi ladies. He felt doing more blood tests would only cause me more discomfort and false hope. Our nightmare began when I went for my 20-week scan. We understand the real meaning of "shit happens". My baby might have Down's syndrome. An appointment should be arranged as soon as possible and ideally within three working days. So instead, I was advised to go home and let nature take its course. It would be a personal tragedy for my partner and me, but that is all. I wasn't unduly worried at all. Two days, after on Christmas Eve, (my 12 week date) I had more blood tests. And at the end of the day however much we talked about it - that it was going to be the two of us to make the decision and me to actually you know, go through it and decide that that was what was going to happen for him - and I just, I didn't want to do it. He then told us what the prognosis would mean for the child. We were convinced everything would be OK. I was told this was common as my body and hormones still thought I was pregnant. Another sick joke. They said the brain was okay -, We were in there for a matter of minutes, literally -, In and out. And they actually asked my husband to come in before they spoke to me. So carried on with the plans, and, you know, planning for the, another baby to come along and then we went for a 20- week scan which is obviously the big one and very exciting, seeing all the arms and legs and once again everything was going fine, 'Look here's the baby, here's the length of baby'. The 18 -20 week fetal anomaly scan is a watershed in most pregnancies because for the majority of women it will be the last time they are scanned before giving birth. And they took me into another room. Living in this world must be unbearable for them. Eventually, the midwife said to us very sweetly, "I think we should deliver the baby now." And, for a few hours, I'm convinced I've made a terrible mistake. And it's, I can't remember exactly what it was now, it's about where the brain is supposed to form. I don't know how we got through the next couple of days. It felt like a lifetime to reach our 12-week-scan. It seemed a very arbitrary system, and so you quite often sat outside in the waiting room for a couple of hours before you actually got to see the consultant, which was, seemed you know, I kind of remember thinking before we went in to see him on the particular day when we found out there was a problem, 'Why are we sitting here? The appointment usually takes around 30 minutes. Looked exactly like our two year old as a baby. I didn't sleep that night I don't think. No one else ever met the object of my grief. Dont worry we wont send you spam or share your email address with anyone. unfortunately the 20 week anomaly scan can pick up serious issues, hearing heart beats at midwife appointment doesn't let us know what's going on inside the body in detail. As two youngest siblings, we were both permanently stuck in the irresponsible, childish role. As I waited for the doctor back on the EPU unit. Can you remember that minute. The first words I said were: "If there's anything wrong then it's my fault", I had been working 70, nearly 80 hours the previous weeks and pushed myself hard. I didn't really know what that was. It's quite common, perhaps 1 in 10 they find these, and within a few weeks they disappear. After that I got, I, it was about in, in 19-, hang on a minute, 2001 I got pregnant again, slightly unexpectedly. But I was struggling mentally with the anguish, grief and endless hospital visits. She brought up a picture of the heart on the screen. Most hospitals do not allow children to attend scans as childcare is not usually available. You've had your, you know, you've had your triple test and everything was fine. Away you go'. This time, they discovered the baby has a two vessel cord (only one vessel from placenta to baby instead of two) and I've been monitored to make sure the baby grows properly and kidneys aren't damaged. I've realised that being a nice person is a luxury some can't afford. . So we decided that, to have the scan and we went along I think early in the week for that, and spent quite a lot of time with the consultant after that. By the time I left the hospital, I was in shock. Several women had taken young children with them to the 20-week scan because they expected to see 'nice pictures of the baby'. The sonographer told me to take the notes, and the scan photos with me so they could review them also. I had hope that the little bumps inside me were fighting just as much as I was to stay with me. You can change your cookie settings at any time. Specialist scans As I say, I'm not a very nice person at the moment. And I can just remember flashing a look at you as if to say, 'Have I made a mistake here somewhere? And at that point I don't think we, I don't think we realised that there might have to be a decision, because we'd talked about it with, with Down's and the other possible problems, but at this point it was, well okay what can be done to fix the problem - because yes the heart's not developing properly but there must be something we can do. I just want to be normal again. It's part of our family. It's been a heartbreaking nightmare. The hormone levels had dropped, but they wanted to scan me again. Just that really! It was horrible. We couldn't say we'd lost the baby, because he was still kicking away, but we couldn't pretend everything was fine, either. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. But the closeness has remained after the drama has died down. chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet. If an abnormality is confirmed or suspected, referral is usually required, although some obvious major fetal abnormalities, such as anencephaly, may not require a second opinion (this should be decided by local guidelines). These were said to be soft markers fo a range of trisomies, 2 of which were incompatible with life. My partner spent the weekend trying to convince me that things were OK. Eventually, the doctor finished the scan and said that some of the baby's measurements were very small. As you felt that, you know, it was probably going to show lots of problems and it just wasn't what we wanted, but at the same time we needed to sort of see it and, we needed to prove it I suppose. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. Chances of bad news at 20 week scan mumsnet I think the whole experience has made me a pretty nasty person. What happens at the second midwife appointment? I would be put to sleep, and when I woke up I wouldn't be pregnant any more. I think I don't everything just seems a real blur because it was, it was such a strange experience. How common is it to get bad news at 20 week scan? | Mumsnet We talked all night and thanked God for crap television. Registered office: Nicholas House, 3 Laurence Pountney Hill, London, EC4R 0BB. And for that whole time, my partner and I were both crying uncontrollably. Slightly marked from our peers. He felt strong and fit and healthy. On January 18, my baby was born, at 23 weeks - a little boy. I let out an animal scream and [wife] kind of leapt onto me on the bed. (See 'Resources'). Did you, how did that scan make you feel? As I left the room to compose myself. My heart goes out to you OP. This is not what I imagined pregnancy to feel like', Baby Loss Awareness Week - Voice Five - Bryony Seabrook. So he went out for a walk. I remember thinking, 'that doesn't look quite right'. And the local hospital wanted to send us off to the regional hospital to actually confirm that, and were not really prepared to say at that time that there was something very seriously wrong. This was a ray of hope for us. Never being able to look after himself. He looked excited. I think what everyone is saying is that most likely outcome is that there are no problems at all. So choroid plexus cysts on their own, no problem, but if there's something else wrong, then that's a problem. Likely to have serious medical problems all his life. However, a few hours later there was another shift change. From losing my dad to his battle with cancer, to then having to face another battle with cancer and my mum; thankfully she pulled though. At first the closeness came through a sense of guilt. For instance a couple who knew their baby was 'on the small size' were told he was fine at the 18-20 week scan, but discovered at 32 weeks that he had microcephaly. It can be such a shock so do whatever you need to feel better. My partner went out with him, wanting to see him. For women who have been given distressing news about their baby during the scan, there should be a health professional available to provide immediate support. For example, the babys brain, kidneys, internal organs or bones may not have developed properly. But the consultant had found more spots on the heart and the measurements were the same. We decided that we wanted medication to help me. And that was a terrible moment to be sort of hanging on, waiting. Last updated July 2017. 80 percent of my pregnancies have ended in death and I felt like they were telling me those babies didn't matter. Though the 18-20 week scan can detect when certain parts of the baby's body have grown abnormally, it may not be possible for clinicians to identify why it has happened or make a firm diagnosis based on the scan alone. I'm trying to understand because I haven't seen a 3-D scan, what it tells the parents? The rarest scenario is that the baby is severely ill and choices will need to be made. On the third day, we got a phone call. And having read, since read my information on Edwards' syndrome, a good 85 per cent have problems with the heart. The pain was excruciating, but nothing compared to how I felt inside. We must have had one before that as well, we must have had one before that, but it came back quite normal. I was then told yet again bad news. I know its hard- but i really wouldnt worry about it too much as the worry will stress you and your body out. We talked about the different sorts of pain relief I could have and I opted for a morphine drip, which I could control. I agreed to an internal scan as the sonographer said we could get a better picture of what was happening. He's now had the all clear and is wriggling round on . Later, I did see and hold our baby. No one else but my partner saw how similar he was to our son. The first midwife seemed to understand what we were trying to say, and said she would ask the doctor to come and talk to us. For once in my life, I had been organised. I was becoming numb to the whole process. Some people we talked to had not had a 18-20-week scan, either because their babies' abnormalities had been detected by earlier . I'd had the scan in the scanning room, I can't remember what they call it now, it's silly, it's gone from my head. And my husband, we never got to sit next to each other in the consulting room, my husband was across the room from me, and I was sat next to the consultant, and we were laughing and joking with him about, you know, the home delivery, and everything was going to be, 'Are you still on for the home delivery?' Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans I took my vitamins, stuck to the healthy diet and put on a brave face. The sonographer will be able to tell you the results of the scan at the time. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. So I took the test and jumped in the shower. Health professionals use the 18-20 week scan to examine the baby's size and position, and also to check if his/her brain, heart, lungs and other internal organs are developing as expected. The contractions started very quickly and within an hour my waters had broken. Do you have any thoughts about that? Never lacking a sense of the dramatic, it felt as if we shared the responsibility for the terrible, dirty act that we had committed. The scan looks for 11 different conditions in your baby and cannot find everything that might be wrong. I guess the morphine made it easier. But it is a soft marker for Edwards' syndrome. It was probably all right but hadn't had any fluid in it at the moment. Again, we weren't understood. So it was, there was very, very little movement from the baby because I remembered first time round by that stage, you know, that the baby was quite big and it moved around a lot at a later scan. Because, when you're angry with the world for dealing you such a shit time, you begin to hate the people who populate it. But here I was, minutes later, lying down, waiting. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. Could she possibly have something that's not been detected? To help us improve GOV.UK, wed like to know more about your visit today. The same rush of excitement. And as soon as she said those words, both of us were like, 'Well what's wrong?'. I have horrible thoughts. But it's bloody hard being miserable the whole time. I didn't think my instincts were worth much. You do not have to have the scan. We also use cookies set by other sites to help us deliver content from their services. Maybe our son would have overcome his problems, survived his illnesses, led a happy life. I was saving my child from pain and suffering. He started to scan me with a cold expression, then told me - Tommy's I want to be nice again. The consultant at the time wasn't really that interested in that imagery. But it was very evident. It was, 'Oh we'll come back to that'. So obviously quite relaxed. 20-week ultrasound (anomaly scan) - BabyCenter Australia The doctor gave her consent, and I took the four little tablets. I can feel my child kick, it responds when he shouts at football - I mean literally, this baby used to dance around whenever he'd like scream at a goal - and there cannot be anything wrong with this child because it's part of us already. My wife had been very, very healthy, more healthy than the first pregnancy, and of course was shattered by the fact that the news, the news was appalling, very serious faces. It is also sometimes referred to as the mid-pregnancy scan . Yeah - in, stomach, out. Enough for two weeks after he had been cremated. And still we asked to see a, Impact of the 20-week and later specialist scans. If you are not sure, you can contact them and ask. And she said that, you know, as the, if the baby did develop further there would probably be other problems with internal organs that weren't really that visible at that stage. I broke down and started hitting my disgusting body that had done this. I hadn't thought about the mechanics of such a late termination, but had assumed it would mean some kind of operation. I wasn't ready to make a decision straight away, and I was told I could call them in the morning. I couldn't really believe what they were saying. Public Health England (PHE) created this information on behalf of the NHS. But she told us, she told us, she gave us some more detail, she said, 'There's this, there's a big gap in the brain where there shouldn't be'. x. It took 20 minutes to push him out. So I lay on the bed and my partner sat next to me. The screen may be directly facing them or at an angle. Soon, the doctor came and inserted the tablets that would induce labour. And how wrong could they be? Within two days I was waiting in my local EPU unit for further tests. It's a bit at the back of the brain and - no I can't remember what it is - it's called, it's something that's called Dandy-Walker mal, The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) have produced a report on Termination of Pregnancy for Fetal Abnormality in England, Scotland and Wales (May 2010). So we left it there, and we didn't actually think that there was anything really to worry about after that scan. So we'd gone through the Down's syndrome or worse scare, we'd had conversations about what we would do, if it was confirmed that it was Down's syndrome or another syndrome, another sort of chromosome abnormality. Life expectancy of 30 or 40. I know it is still early days. And shortly after that, that scan we'd finished and the consultant leant back and said, 'I'm afraid we have some problems here'. Being generous and kind generally happens only when you're happy. At the time the same thing had, exactly the same thing had happened to my friend a month before, and her scan was absolutely fine. He looked fine. Limitations of the 18-20 week scan We left the hospital a couple of hours later. Some people want to find out if their baby has one of the 11 conditions and some do not. See more information about the 20-week ultrasound scan. Most scans show that babies seem to be developing as expected, and none of the 11 conditions are found. That was an extremely difficult day. Sometimes doctors will wait to give the baby more time to develop and carry out repeat scans - this had confused several parents we talked to who had gone for repeat scans not knowing that the baby might have a problem. And it was then because we were at 20 weeks by this point, there was only fairly short window to actually, to get some more tests done, find out what the problems were, and then make any decisions that might have to be made. Within it are a number of recommendations for the communication of findings from ultrasounds. Others, including those who had been given leaflets to read about the scan beforehand as well as some who were health professionals, said that they had been nave about the 20-week scan. I went home feeling crushed; Sam and I both felt helpless. I give pregnant women dirty looks. It doesn't remove the guilt, but I don't know what else to do. There, I would give birth. Severe chromosomal conditions such as Edwards' syndrome are now often picked up in the first trimester antenatal screening but itwill usually be more obviousat the 18- 20 week scan, though usually a firm diagnosis will not be made until one or two specialists have weighed up all available evidence about the baby - which usually means that another expert needs to scan the baby again, or until the woman has had an amniocentesis. Dont include personal or financial information like your National Insurance number or credit card details. Others said they were shocked because all the early diagnostic tests (e.g. You're in and out and that was it. That they could have spotted something, or not? We had amnio and then spent a week in absoute anguish waiting for the outcome which was no trisomies. See you in -. So we went home really and I sort of had to think about it all night. Baby loss stories And also what the prognosis would mean for our two year old: now a very happy child, he would have a completely different childhood with such an ill sibling. We've got the same battle scars. So we decided to book an early 10 week private scan. Everywhere you look, there are happy, fat, smug pregnant women. So even if anomolies are found, they don't always mean a problem.. x. I had issues at the 20 weeks scan with both of mine. Bad news at 20 week scan | Mumsnet It is impossible to escape them and each one underlines your loss. In a small number of cases some very serious conditions are found. or sort of light chat that we'd, we'd experienced before with previous scans. Many parents were shocked by findings from the 20-week and later scans. We were denying him his life. Apologise for somehow doubting their right to be in this world. Some of the conditions that can be seen on the scan will mean the baby may need treatment or surgery after it is born, for example cleft lip. And it was just a bit of a shock because it's not really what you want to hear - you don't really expect that. The anomaly scan, also called the 20 week scan or mid-pregnancy scan, is used to detect pregnancy irregularities significant in diagnosis of any of the following conditions: In most instances no serious issue will be found during the scan and many parents-to be will come away knowing that all is progressing nicely and, perhaps, having found out . I tried not to sit still for too long, because then I became too aware of the little thing inside me. Could you tell? Instinctively, did it feel right? Specialist scans had a powerful effect on some parents because they could see the baby more clearly and in some cases people recognised which parts of the baby's body were not working properly. But even if I was there, I still think I would have wanted to see the detail on the scan. We'd sort of put those discussions to the back of our mind, and then all of a sudden there are other abnormalities so yeah it was a bit a bit of a shocker [laughs]. By this point I had stopped bleeding, this caused problems. I think I was about 20 weeks cos they, the hospital I think did the 12 and the 20, that was their standard thing and, yeah, so I got the 20 weeks one. I wanted to be a passive patient while the doctor did what he had to do. She describes having to make a momentous decision very quickly, and the ferment of relief, guilt and grief that followed, Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. I thought surely everything is ok, as they couldn't detect twins the week before.