The temporary cavity is the hole in the target that briefly expands after immediate impact, only to collapse a fraction of a second later. Fire Rate: 1,000 rounds/minute. First off when you call a magazine a CLIP, everything you say is null and void as far as Im concerned. Been hunting 49 years. It can also destroy your aim, and the strongest bullet on earth is useless if it doesnt hit the bad guy coming at you. Thank you. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. It is really scary to think that a jury would put any weight behind what he says knowing that the rest of my life will be determined by the crap spewed forth from him. As where the .45, would dislodge the silhouette every time with a single shot. Pistols are primarily used for close combat. Semiautomatic rifles dont shoot the largest bullets on the market. The beautiful country in south east Asia. Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. These features, along with superb marketing efforts, have made the 9mm the round of choice, not only for the armed forces, but also for most police departments in the U.S. If that were true, we would only have one size Shoe, Clothing Etc. I can concealed carry and the weight of my Ruger compact 9mm is about as heavy as I want. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. Whatever happened to the body armor piercing 5.7 round- 20 in the mag, one in the pipe n if that aint enough, 30 round mag works great for me!!!! The past 45 years never needed more than one shot. Therefore, the 9mm is probably the correct choice. I can say with great certainty that many animals dont just simply fall over and die. Wouldnt waste my money on it. A pistol just sucks in that situation. I Have hair and an angular face. It is also a logistics factor 45 is just one more different ammo to resupply. A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. Was the 357 mag. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. Again this is my opinion and it is based on personal COMBAT EXPERIENCE. Cant get into why I know this but but Im retired from the Government. Well, depends on whom you ask. Id rather be hit by a small rock than a big one. Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. What do you Think of the S&W Shield? 45 Hunt! I also could not afford the astronomical price (astronomical in my current budget) shops are now asking for a 4 inch Ruger Redhawk. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. first handgun i ever fired was glock27 .40SW she was snappy at first but 16 years later and after shooting lots of .45 and 9, i am back to .40SW for HD purposes. Lumpy Rutherford's Instagram, Twitter & Facebook on IDCrawl That meant that the tip didnt just bore straight through him, but rather that the whole length of the projectile rotated over and over through Scalises body, ripping a wider hole and distributing a bigger shock wave throughout his bones and tissue. What damage can a .45 caliber bullet do to a human? - Quora All this newer powder and more efficient bullets. I have not fired it yet but have dry fired it some to get back in tune. Pistol calibers can work well if you dispense them from an SMG and send lots of them at a time. This would give them an edge regarding tissue displacement/destruction during a shooting incident where any advantage, however slight, would be welcome. All this scientific garbage really sounds great, but if you need fifteen rounds to eliminate a threat you got real bad aiming habits. Before he did this there was almost as many different firearms within the department as deputies. While, I understand that budgetary issues are a factor they should not come before the safety of the officer pr soldier. You can either hit a target or not that simple. We were already running +P for our 9 9mms. The difference can be seen with pistol rounds, as well. I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. of a 24-year-old man struck in the chest by a .40-caliber hollow-point pistol round, doctors found organ damage outside the direct path of the bullet. This remained the norm in the FBI until May 2014. You have renewed my faith in man. 9mm Vs 45 Has The Marine Corps Settled It? - Concealed Carry Inc If we had had 45acp in the hands of the FBI in most every one of these complete inept foul ups they would likely have never happened and the debate would only be Glock or 1911 45 acp. 2. She said she shot him. ACP cystic fluid caused growth retardation and an increased obesity index in mice, affected the expression of the Npy, Fgfr2, Rnpc3, Sst, and Pcsk1n genes that regulate growth and energy metabolism in hypothalamic neurons, and enhanced the cellular interaction of AgrpMc3r. Circulatory collapse results from massive bleeding caused by bullet wounds primarily to the heart, other major organs or major blood vessels of the torso. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. pulverizing bones, tearing blood vessels and liquefying organs. She remembered one young man who was admitted to her emergency room with an abdominal wound from a hollow-point round. This gave the enemy a chance to still bury a spearhead in the shooters chest, before finally collapsing from internal damage and blood loss. With bigger bullets, you will make bigger holes.. If I am just going to the range with my son, I prefer the .45. Someone may be laughing but I am given to understand that over in Iraq and Astan there are people who frequently HAVE had to chase down individuals who have been wounded with a handgun. Better get that imagination under control, tough guy! The main reason I now have a 9 mm is that at the time, I could not find a small enough 45 that was double action. Indeed, in some studies, such as one conducted by the Law Enforcement Assistance Administration (LEAA), the temporary cavity is assumed to be the primary handgun wounding factor. A 35-45 psi If you carry, you owe it to everyone to be as proficient as possible. .45 acp is a good round and I prefer it used in close quarter environments becuse it is heavier and pack more energy. The mechanism by which adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma (ACP) damages the hypothalamus is still unclear. Im an athletic guy so handling the recoil is not too bad. According to the Marine Corps Times: For Marine special operators, the never-ending debate over whether the 9mm or .45-caliber round is the more powerful bullet has been settled. Sources say Jimmy Lam used a TEC-9 style pistol, illegal to sell in the state for almost two decades. Skorpion Ammo Type: 9 mm. So dont ask. I also read a recent article about a fishing guide who shot and killed a grizzly bear with a 147gr, 9mm from a S&W 3913. Good job Chris and the rest of you but remember when you give gun advise target shooting and self defense shooting are two different scenarios and one can get you deadyou cant shoot my gun as good as me but you can shoot your gun because its the best one for you. However, I purchased the 9 mm because for a carry gun I feel safer with the style of firearm I bought for daily carry purposes. Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. Even long range shots! Creatine is an amino acid located mostly in your body's muscles as well as in the brain. , Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. .. maybe for some people the 45 is too much power,. So that is where the saying and belief came from. 12 shots fired. All rights reserved. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball.. I even tried to do the same test with my Tuger SR9 compact and it was a worse outcome than the Walther. When the engagement really happens and it is very fluid you are going to point shoot. Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. 45 guy and .357 mag lover . Really.. and air on the nose of the bullet?! I prefer 45 revolvers. At 10-20 yards I want a .45. The tests resulted in the selection in 1989 of the 10mm bullet as the most effective and accurate round for FBI agents to carry. The damage was far too extensive. Affiliate Disclosure-Terms of Use-Privacy Policy - Returns & Refunds - Shipping & Delivery - Affiliates, This story of a Chicago-suburb police officer. 10mm. Muscle memory is great thing. Take this for what its worth. The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it hits its target with more energy. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Self Defense and Body Damage, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License, Best Self-Defense Caliber and Damage to the Human Body, Effectiveness of Bullet Wounds: How Gunshot Wounds Work, What Happens When You Get Shot: Damage to the Human Body. In the black powder days hollow points had not been invented yet and most bullets were round nose lead so the larger heavier bullet hit harder. However, there are two factors virtually everyone agrees on: 1. Because size is king? The .45 is a less desirable round because of Air Resistance? Let the Craftsman pick his tools! Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. Keep in mind, competing for government contracts is expensive, time-consuming, and maintaining an awarded contract can be a royal pain in the you-know-what! And Im not always concerned with concealing. Come On People!! He eventually was taken off life support 4 days later, open casket funeral. A 45acp will deliver more damage to a human body that a 9mm. So in other words, Science is also getting a kick back just so the 9mm gets so called, scientific proof! Okay 9s are cool, hold a lot of rounds, small recoil, cheap to shoot and buy. But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. The biggest determining factors were and have always been budget and of course, what the inept FBI is carrying. You are up close and personal with this guy. Give me a break!! So logically the 45 is more effective at stopping Humans, than the 9mm, data from lethal census. But its definitely not easy to carry concealed (especially in hot weather) and Im big guy. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. Out charges the male mental with a screw driver in his hand. Example; a bb to the eyeball is very effective. I am not old. The gun was designed prior to WW1 and its main usage was close combat in regards to trench warfare. We argued more capacity modern rounds ect ect. Take a look at the FBI stats on their testing of various pistol ammunition as well as other reputable studies. Four ribs had essentially turned to dust. For me the thing that has always solved this debate is simple. I was shot with a 45acp in my right leg. Handgun caliber and size is to each is own. Train! The programs, policies, and people driving positive change in Americas gun violence problem. The last time such a broad survey of gun ownership in America was done, long arms ruled the day and Americans were largely interested in weapons for hunting and other sporting uses. In case you didn't get the memo, the FBI's ballistic testing labs are the best in the world, and they've been doing it for a long time. I have read how the 124gr 9mm ammo used by NATO does not do its intended job. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. The amount of energy a bullet radiates into a target is determined by a simple formula taught in high school: Its the product of one half the projectiles mass times the square of the velocity. I carried a 1911 in Vietnam as well as a 12 ga. .45 stayed on the hip. WebHuman Body 101 | National Geographic National Geographic 21.2M subscribers Subscribe 52K 3.3M views 5 years ago How does the human body work? 0.177" Steel air gun dart will penetrate to shank, in skin, at 120 ft/s. Then, theres the venerable .357 magnum, which, though smaller than the .44, comes roaring out of a barrel at speeds as high as 1600 FPS. Love reading your stuff. Damage: 55. Of the nearly 250 million guns owned by Americans at that time, somewhere between 40 and 50 million of them were handguns. Now thats hilarious. With the continuation of the pussification of America we see so many in posotions of power making decisions that follow the continuation of that thinkinhg. 1SGT. All this is much different than the British Armys approach to marching headfirst into conflict, taking aim and firing. I had a neighbor when I lived outside Fort Worth. Thank you. What type of bullet is being fired? A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. Ive never liked Glock its sure a well made gun but definitely NOT the best gun Ive shot. This doesnt factor shot placement. Is the debate on 9mm vs. .45 (or .40) settled then? The saying The Quick And The Dead was true. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. for all the same reasons. There were no exit wounds. WebSTI Tactical. In fact you are 1000 rounds short. The bullet has far less weight and cross section than a .45 acp? His career began as a special agent with NCIS. Still, the research is not widespread and a great deal of it is not terribly relevant for the average person searching for a reliable self-defense weapon. Symptoms When a handgun is bought for personal protection, whether in the home or on the street, its purpose is the application of deadly force to protect your own life, the lives of others, and to prevent serious physical harm. But nearly worthless in real world situations. sledgehammer. Frank K. Seems to me that when using the same style bullet in the 45 and 9mm the 45 would still beat the 9 in stopping power. Going on 7 years Law Enforcement here with a rough Dept. However, if the bullet lacks a JHP configuration, then its not doing as well as it could. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. It appears now we have had to Dumb Down our .45cal. Do your thing, your responsible for your actions! 158 gr 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullet will penetrate outside skin of car door and sometimes just penetrate the inside skin. In July, reports indicated that the top candidates in the final running for the new $17 million-dollar Modular Handgun System (MHS) contract to replace the current Beretta M9 included Glock's G17, the Sig Sauer P320, Smith & Wesson's M&P, and the new Beretta APX among others. We are currently looking for shooting survivors to discuss their experience and their recovery. Now lets get back to today in time and we do have very good defense ammo so most of the time Id agree that the 9mm is equal to any other round out there today for human sized targets and smaller as well. Moreover, law enforcement shootings typically result in only one or two solid torso hits on adversaries. The round severed Platts brachial artery, passing through the arm into his chest and almost entirely through his right lung. Im sure, given the choice, MARSOC troops would take a 15 round FNX45 over a Glock 15. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. WebChronic kidney disease is a disease characterized by progressive damage and loss of function in the kidneys. Its hesitation that makes people miss. I have a rock island arms 1911 45, a Walther p22 22cal., A heritage rough rider 22 6 inch barrel. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. As stated before, this article isnt intended to solve the stopping power debate, but only to discuss the issues it involves. finds relevant news, identifies important training information, They are a secondary source at best. But if stopping power is your only indicator of success in battle, then I suggest a WWII 16 inch navy rifle same as the Battleship Missouri ! Q-do you think your mind will change about +P in a 45 cal? I got it cheap and after using it and putting a few hundred rounds without any malfunction and also being very accurate. Im very confident a 45 caliber would have been one and done. This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. To each his own. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! In the woods my .45 r1 with cast is what I carry. Yes I can only get 2 shots off accurately in the same time as 4 with a 9 but again 2 usually does it. His chest was gurgling and slurping. If you like and are comfortable with what you shot, then you will carry what you like. An exit wound differs greatly from an entrance wound. Among other things, this makes it ineffective against body armor. Because capacity equals TIME. And fyi, if you are an expert at shooting a needle into peoples medulla, caliber is irrelevant until the large size becomes combersome. The same companies make the 45acp and other calibers! You, ordinary walking around citizen are likely to be accosted from very close range, within say 10 feet to up close. Dan, your and many others comments ring true.